Good and Bad Hate: A Tale of Two Comics
In the realm of recent comics there are few I hate more than Civil War and Nextwave.
Thing is, one kind of hatred is good. The other? Not so much...
What do I mean by this? Well let's start with Marvel's big crossover, Civil War.
I admit I don't think a comics event like Civil War should come so soon after House of M, Marvel's last big mega event. Despite the passage of about a year between the two it just seems rushed. People, writers and readers, are still adjusting to the fallout of House of M and along comes this new big event that changes everything...again. And Joe Quesada was criticizing DC for being off with Infinite Crisis.
That said, my overall hatred for Civil War is the good kind. I hate that Iron Man is a tremendous dick. I hate that Reed Richards is the world's smartest dumb guy. I hate that Spiderman got conned into revealing his secret identity. I certainly hate that SHIELD has turned bad and is getting psychotic supervillains to hunt down Captain freakin' America. Oh, and I hate that no one in the Marvel Universe seems to notice what a big fucking set up the whole thing was. And wow, do I hate that Iron Man and Mr. Fantastic thought it was a good idea to clone Thor to use as a heavy against their former friends who won't tow their crappy party line.
But all of that hatred is good. Because, as a long time comic reader...I can generally buy these things.
Iron Man is the same control freak dick who some years ago went after every person in the world who had a gadget based on some stolen technology of his. Hero, villain, government agency...didn't matter. That's right, the guy who made a lot of money selling weapons to the government and who has actually given his technology to various heroes over the years arbitrarily decided no one could be trusted with it and in some cases actually injured and killed some folks to "get back what's mine." Tony Stark, despite sometimes being a great hero, is a tremendous fucking cock. After all, this is the guy who has repeatedly lied about who's in his souped up tin can, especially after he's done something bad enough to face potential jail time.
And yet here he is trying to beat up guys who don't want to reveal their identities to a government that has at various points Red Skull as a cabinet member, wasted billions on genocidal anti-mutant robots that routinely go beserk, tried to replace Captain America with a bloodthirsty psycho (twice), and tried to invade Wakanda because they wanted all the cool shit in that country without having to engage in any of the humanitarian endeavors that nation stated was the "cost" of sharing such treasures. Why is Iron Man doing this? Well, because he is a control freak dick.
But hey, what about Reed Richards. Reed is a nice guy. And he's damned smart. Seems odd he'd do something so short-sighted and stupid, doesn't it?
Not really.
After all, Reed Richards is the same guy who took his best friend, girl friend, and her kid brother up into orbit to exposed to dangerous radiation because he wanted to see what would happen and/or didn't think to actually shield their spaceship from cosmic rays. He's the guy who almost lost his smoking hot girlfriend to a crazy aquatic anti-hero with bad hair and winged feet who invades the surface world every six months. So Reed's the smartest guy in the freakin' world...except when he's being mind numbingly stupid.
So I totally believe Reed would decide to follow Iron Man's asinine plan and would attempt to clone a god just to see if he could.
I believe SHIELD, an agency which once tried to kill its own head because it had been utterly and totally subverted by hostile forces, will recruit Bullseye and Venom and yet will try to grab Luke Cage at 12:01 AM the day the Registration Act Cage refused to abide by went active.
I believe that a fucked up clone of Thor, sans the actual god's wisdom and judgment, would go beserk and try to kill anyone his creators labeled as "enemy." And I believe a control freak, the world's smartest dumbguy, and a perpetually fucked up intelligence agency wouldn't see that coming.
I also believe that virtually no one is looking for the actual villain who started this whole thing.
Don't get me wrong, these things suck. I hate them. And I totally buy them as happening in the Marvel Universe. Come to think of it, I totally buy them happening in the real world too, minus the capes and powers. Thus the emotional reaction Civil War creates in me is a positive one...even though it manifests mostly as anger and hatred at the believable stupidity of some of the characters.
Now let's talk Nextwave.
I've been told I don't get Nextwave. That I don't see why it's so damned subversively funny and all that. I've also been told why I don't like it, which usually is because I get "worked up" over changes to characters "nobody cares about."
But that's not true. I totally get it.
I get that to tell some fairly hackneyed gags I've already read in earlier works by the same author, Warren Ellis is rewriting comic history, ignoring continuity, and doing anything he likes in hopes of pissing off at least as many people as he entertains. I get that he's playing with these comic "sacred cows" of history, character consistency, continuity, etc.. and doing so with "minor" characters that "nobody" cares about. After all, it's not like any of these guys were created by Jack Kirby or led the Avengers* so it's not like he's doing this to deliberatly piss anyone off, it's just good fun with characters no one has ever been able to do anything with. After all, it's not like any of these folks were ever regulars in a major title or got a miniseries or something before he came along.**
I get that Ellis is a motherfucking rock and roll comics rebel who's trying to do for superhero parodies what he did for Hunter S. Thompson...repackaging it so that people who didn't read this kind of stuff the first time can experience it like it was fresh and new...and in some cases act like it didn't happen the first time.***
I get all that. I just don't think it's fucking funny. In fact, I think it's utterly boring.
And I can't help but remember this is the guy who got tired of the Authority after 12 issues and still can't finish Planetary. This is also the guy who tends to kill a lot of characters he doesn't create when given the chance and get credit for being edgy. This is the guy who repackaged and recycled scenes from the aforementioned Planetary to do a short fiction bit in White Wolf's rpg Adventure!.
So I get it. I'm just bored with reruns. Ellis' own, or his version of something I saw years ago. It's not clever to rewrite whole characters for a dick or sex joke. I get that I'm supposed to think it's gleefully irreverent and all that crap, but I can't help but see things like Nextwave's Civil War parody cover or Fing Fang Foom's rampage explained because he has no dick and think "Wow, a crossover parody cover and radioactive monster phallic humor...this is the best the guy who gave us Jack Hawksmoor and 'Dude, you Fantasti-suck' can do?"
So really, I get it.
I just hate it. And it's the bad kind of hate. It's not invoking an emotional reaction due to its content. It's invoking one due to its lack of same.
This is mostly because it's some seriously unfunny shit in my book that's better than even some admittedly "also-ran" Marvel characters deserve.
But partially it's because I suspect that if we switched Warren Ellis' name with Chuck Austen, Bendis, Claremont, or whoever else the internet hates this week people would be calling this piece of crap...a piece of crap.
And maybe I'd be a bit more charitable about this book if I haven't had to endure being labeled, insulted, and overall talked down to by its fans. And hey maybe I'm a bit prickly on the subject. As a lawyer, published writer, game designer, husband, and pretty damn well read guy who just happens to be a long time comic reader I get a bit annoyed when I'm told my understanding of something is inferior simply because I don't like it.
So maybe it's the fanboy reaction I hate and not Nextwave.
Ah, who the hell am I kidding? I hate both. And unlike my annoyed groans at Tony Stark's latest fuck up it's the bad kind of hate. It's the bored kind of hate. The "I could have written this crap myself once the theme of 'extreme in yer face revisionist parody' was set" kind of hate. It's the Big Fat Hate.
Actually, it's worse than that. It's the more sadistic, messier, pointless, and ultimately less interesting kind of hate.
Yes folks, it's the All-Star Batman & Robin kind of hate.
And who the hell am I to praise such an uneven and sometimes annoying but often entertaining Civil War writer Mark Millar over uneven and sometimes annoying but often entertaining Nextwave writer Warren Ellis?
Isn't it obvious?
I'm the goddamned Jack, man.
* Both of these things, of course, are actually true of two of the characters in Nextwave.
** Wrong in every case with Nextwave except for Captain Big Grown-Up Naughty Word, who is Ellis' way of oh so slying pointing out past stupid Captain titled characters in Marvel, the vast majority of which haven't been seen in over a decade. Way to be current, Warren.
*** Seriously, I can provide a decent list of superhero parodies in a similar vein from Martial Law to JLI to the Pro. The big difference here is that unlike most similar works, Ellis is getting to use the actual characters and not thinly veiled knock-offs.
Thing is, one kind of hatred is good. The other? Not so much...
What do I mean by this? Well let's start with Marvel's big crossover, Civil War.
I admit I don't think a comics event like Civil War should come so soon after House of M, Marvel's last big mega event. Despite the passage of about a year between the two it just seems rushed. People, writers and readers, are still adjusting to the fallout of House of M and along comes this new big event that changes everything...again. And Joe Quesada was criticizing DC for being off with Infinite Crisis.
That said, my overall hatred for Civil War is the good kind. I hate that Iron Man is a tremendous dick. I hate that Reed Richards is the world's smartest dumb guy. I hate that Spiderman got conned into revealing his secret identity. I certainly hate that SHIELD has turned bad and is getting psychotic supervillains to hunt down Captain freakin' America. Oh, and I hate that no one in the Marvel Universe seems to notice what a big fucking set up the whole thing was. And wow, do I hate that Iron Man and Mr. Fantastic thought it was a good idea to clone Thor to use as a heavy against their former friends who won't tow their crappy party line.
But all of that hatred is good. Because, as a long time comic reader...I can generally buy these things.
Iron Man is the same control freak dick who some years ago went after every person in the world who had a gadget based on some stolen technology of his. Hero, villain, government agency...didn't matter. That's right, the guy who made a lot of money selling weapons to the government and who has actually given his technology to various heroes over the years arbitrarily decided no one could be trusted with it and in some cases actually injured and killed some folks to "get back what's mine." Tony Stark, despite sometimes being a great hero, is a tremendous fucking cock. After all, this is the guy who has repeatedly lied about who's in his souped up tin can, especially after he's done something bad enough to face potential jail time.
And yet here he is trying to beat up guys who don't want to reveal their identities to a government that has at various points Red Skull as a cabinet member, wasted billions on genocidal anti-mutant robots that routinely go beserk, tried to replace Captain America with a bloodthirsty psycho (twice), and tried to invade Wakanda because they wanted all the cool shit in that country without having to engage in any of the humanitarian endeavors that nation stated was the "cost" of sharing such treasures. Why is Iron Man doing this? Well, because he is a control freak dick.
But hey, what about Reed Richards. Reed is a nice guy. And he's damned smart. Seems odd he'd do something so short-sighted and stupid, doesn't it?
Not really.
After all, Reed Richards is the same guy who took his best friend, girl friend, and her kid brother up into orbit to exposed to dangerous radiation because he wanted to see what would happen and/or didn't think to actually shield their spaceship from cosmic rays. He's the guy who almost lost his smoking hot girlfriend to a crazy aquatic anti-hero with bad hair and winged feet who invades the surface world every six months. So Reed's the smartest guy in the freakin' world...except when he's being mind numbingly stupid.
So I totally believe Reed would decide to follow Iron Man's asinine plan and would attempt to clone a god just to see if he could.
I believe SHIELD, an agency which once tried to kill its own head because it had been utterly and totally subverted by hostile forces, will recruit Bullseye and Venom and yet will try to grab Luke Cage at 12:01 AM the day the Registration Act Cage refused to abide by went active.
I believe that a fucked up clone of Thor, sans the actual god's wisdom and judgment, would go beserk and try to kill anyone his creators labeled as "enemy." And I believe a control freak, the world's smartest dumbguy, and a perpetually fucked up intelligence agency wouldn't see that coming.
I also believe that virtually no one is looking for the actual villain who started this whole thing.
Don't get me wrong, these things suck. I hate them. And I totally buy them as happening in the Marvel Universe. Come to think of it, I totally buy them happening in the real world too, minus the capes and powers. Thus the emotional reaction Civil War creates in me is a positive one...even though it manifests mostly as anger and hatred at the believable stupidity of some of the characters.
Now let's talk Nextwave.
I've been told I don't get Nextwave. That I don't see why it's so damned subversively funny and all that. I've also been told why I don't like it, which usually is because I get "worked up" over changes to characters "nobody cares about."
But that's not true. I totally get it.
I get that to tell some fairly hackneyed gags I've already read in earlier works by the same author, Warren Ellis is rewriting comic history, ignoring continuity, and doing anything he likes in hopes of pissing off at least as many people as he entertains. I get that he's playing with these comic "sacred cows" of history, character consistency, continuity, etc.. and doing so with "minor" characters that "nobody" cares about. After all, it's not like any of these guys were created by Jack Kirby or led the Avengers* so it's not like he's doing this to deliberatly piss anyone off, it's just good fun with characters no one has ever been able to do anything with. After all, it's not like any of these folks were ever regulars in a major title or got a miniseries or something before he came along.**
I get that Ellis is a motherfucking rock and roll comics rebel who's trying to do for superhero parodies what he did for Hunter S. Thompson...repackaging it so that people who didn't read this kind of stuff the first time can experience it like it was fresh and new...and in some cases act like it didn't happen the first time.***
I get all that. I just don't think it's fucking funny. In fact, I think it's utterly boring.
And I can't help but remember this is the guy who got tired of the Authority after 12 issues and still can't finish Planetary. This is also the guy who tends to kill a lot of characters he doesn't create when given the chance and get credit for being edgy. This is the guy who repackaged and recycled scenes from the aforementioned Planetary to do a short fiction bit in White Wolf's rpg Adventure!.
So I get it. I'm just bored with reruns. Ellis' own, or his version of something I saw years ago. It's not clever to rewrite whole characters for a dick or sex joke. I get that I'm supposed to think it's gleefully irreverent and all that crap, but I can't help but see things like Nextwave's Civil War parody cover or Fing Fang Foom's rampage explained because he has no dick and think "Wow, a crossover parody cover and radioactive monster phallic humor...this is the best the guy who gave us Jack Hawksmoor and 'Dude, you Fantasti-suck' can do?"
So really, I get it.
I just hate it. And it's the bad kind of hate. It's not invoking an emotional reaction due to its content. It's invoking one due to its lack of same.
This is mostly because it's some seriously unfunny shit in my book that's better than even some admittedly "also-ran" Marvel characters deserve.
But partially it's because I suspect that if we switched Warren Ellis' name with Chuck Austen, Bendis, Claremont, or whoever else the internet hates this week people would be calling this piece of crap...a piece of crap.
And maybe I'd be a bit more charitable about this book if I haven't had to endure being labeled, insulted, and overall talked down to by its fans. And hey maybe I'm a bit prickly on the subject. As a lawyer, published writer, game designer, husband, and pretty damn well read guy who just happens to be a long time comic reader I get a bit annoyed when I'm told my understanding of something is inferior simply because I don't like it.
So maybe it's the fanboy reaction I hate and not Nextwave.
Ah, who the hell am I kidding? I hate both. And unlike my annoyed groans at Tony Stark's latest fuck up it's the bad kind of hate. It's the bored kind of hate. The "I could have written this crap myself once the theme of 'extreme in yer face revisionist parody' was set" kind of hate. It's the Big Fat Hate.
Actually, it's worse than that. It's the more sadistic, messier, pointless, and ultimately less interesting kind of hate.
Yes folks, it's the All-Star Batman & Robin kind of hate.
And who the hell am I to praise such an uneven and sometimes annoying but often entertaining Civil War writer Mark Millar over uneven and sometimes annoying but often entertaining Nextwave writer Warren Ellis?
Isn't it obvious?
I'm the goddamned Jack, man.
* Both of these things, of course, are actually true of two of the characters in Nextwave.
** Wrong in every case with Nextwave except for Captain Big Grown-Up Naughty Word, who is Ellis' way of oh so slying pointing out past stupid Captain titled characters in Marvel, the vast majority of which haven't been seen in over a decade. Way to be current, Warren.
*** Seriously, I can provide a decent list of superhero parodies in a similar vein from Martial Law to JLI to the Pro. The big difference here is that unlike most similar works, Ellis is getting to use the actual characters and not thinly veiled knock-offs.
posted by Jack at 3:29 AM
6 Comments:
It does seem like Warren Ellis likes to ride on the coattails of those that came before him, but instead of thanking them, he makes fun of them.
Kinda like Garth Ennis...but he's worst since he actively hates whatever he's writing about, unless he created it himself.
Just like, yes, All-Star Batman and Robin. Sound familiar?
At least with guys like Bendis and Millar, I get to have some crabby fun with characters I don't normally like. Even if I don't care about Marvel's Civil War, it got me more interested in Captain America.
Actually I never get the sense of mean spiritedness I sometimes get with Millar and Ellis that I do with Ennis.
For me at least, Ennis is never taking shots at the reader. Ellis and Millar both kinda make a habit of that.
For example, Ennis often tells stories where superheroes are screwed up and hyppocritical. It's very early 90s post modernist "dark age" comic stuff, but he usually tells that story straight.
Ellis or Millar, sometimes tells a story where superheroes are screwed up and hyppocritical and then takes shots at the reader for what they "know" their reaction to their work is. Alternatively they do exactly what you said, they trash on the folks who came before them.
Take, Millar's Wanted. Great story...as long as the story is about the characters and the setting. Once it becomes about how fucked up the reader is, it sucks...hard. The only saving grace there is that it doesn't fall apart until the last few pages after the real story has ended.
Nextwave does seem to me to be pretty disrespectul. In other works, Ellis portrays contempt with his work to me. For the source material, the readers who enjoyed said material, to whatever is going on in comics he or one of his buddies isn't writing, etc...
And really, that's juvenile in a way that he only gets away with because of his cult of personality.
Note I'm not trashing on it for being irreverent. I fucking love irreverent. Preacher was irreverant. Stormwatch and Authority before the whole Wildstormverse was cocked up with "OMG the USAian are sooo bad and they're sheep and their heroes are hate mongers and...look at me! Look at me!" style plotlines. Er...sorry. I digressed a bit.
Irreverent is cool. Irreverent brings change.
Disrespectful is fucking lame. Lazy and lame.
Take American Way. It holds the 60s Silver Age style comics in NO way sacred. Nor the generation that lived during that time. Or the government of that era. It takes some hard shots at the "Old fashioned superheroes." Battle Hymn did the same with the Golden Age...hell, so did Golden Age, and Starman, and to a lesser extent the JSA.
But these stories never project an aura of "Man, this is fucking silly and you suck for ever liking it."
Ellis and Millar tend to do that...when they aren't trying.
And personally I think it's all the fucking dodge. A lot of their work doesn't do this. A lot of it reads like a love story to old comics told by a fairly pretentious, sometimes annoying, but generally okay college kid.
But when they want attention? Then they fuck up characters they don't own, insult readers, and basically talk down to readers, online and in their work.
So every time you see Millar or Ellis writing some bullshit story about how some American superhero they've been given some authority over is a closet fascist racist who rapes kittens? That's a fairly pathetic cry for attention.
And hey, sometimes it even works. I liked Millar's really monstrous Hulk in Ultimates. But I don't pretend to think that he isn't in some way thinking "They'll never forget me! Not when I make the Hulk eat the medical staff!"
Actually, that might be assessment of Civil War...it's a fairly pathetic cry for attention that actually works as a narrative.
Machine Man running his brain on beer? Really bad SHIELD parodies? Not so much.
But then I also realize I'm screaming at the wailing wall here. The vast majority of comics fans can't seem to get off Ellis' dick and they'll eat up the half assed crap he serves them even as he acts like he hates them because they've decided "Oh I'm not the kind of fanboy he's mocking/I'm cool like Warren get his genius!"
And really, that's lame. I mean terribly. It's like these poor motherfuckers who are buying ASB&R and droves claiming "Yeah, it totally sucks! That's Frank's plan! He knows how lame it all is and is showiwng us all how much it's all crap!"
I mean if I could bottle that disillusionment...
For me, Ellis is like Tarrantino. Fun stuff, overall. Moments of brilliance. But I don't want to hear their opinions on anything nor am I interested in the satirical humor of a guy who gets off on attention like a spastic 8 year old.
If I want consitent brilliance, I've got Morrison. If I want humor that doesn't seem to trash my likes and tastes, I've got Ennis, Kirkman, etc...
Ellis and Millar both do some good work. But they also both probably need a punch in the nuts now and then.
Or at least an editor with some control and some guts.
Sigh, so I was looking for something online and I noticed something.
For every comic fan who loves Ellis fucking up characters in Nextwave, there's one (sometimes the same one) all pissed because Reggie Hudlin is "ruining" Black Panther.
Uh-huh. What. The Fuck. Ever.
Hudlin's Panther is still one of the better books I get. It's on the top of my reading list every month and while I know I know nothing about comics, I'd like to think I have some taste.
Course I don't suffering from two problems I feel aggravate this:
1) I'm not a Forge/Storm true-shipper. Forge had his chance...he fucked it up. And personally if you did marry the guy who created a weapon which stole your powers and basically violated your very being...what does that really say about you?
2) I don't worship at the feet of the Cult of Doom. Yeah, T'Challa beat Doom recently and so many comic fans are bitching about that. And on that subject I say...
Good. Let Panther beat Doom. Every month for all I care.
Everybody beats Doom. Doom is still obsession over his college roommate for christssakes. Doom shorts Luke Cage 200 bucks and gets beat for it.
Doom, mostly, blows. He's Darth Vader without the initial triumph before the fall and no last minute reform. He's a tyrant and a dick.
But apparently Hudlin's a prick for daring to rekindle the old Storm/BP romance and beating up Doom. He's also apparently "preachy" with his portrayals of non-blacks.
Well, thank god we have Nextwave then...I mean if I need a good protrayal of African American superheroes I can find it in Monica Rambeau...
As she was written in a recent issue of Black Panther. In Nextwave, she's annoying and broken. Whoopee.
And maybe I'm a dick but so many of the Anti-BP comments read a bit like "I'm not racist but..." Particularly those bitching about things like Hudlin's commentary about the fuck up that was Katrina disaster relief.
SO I guess I'm just not "in tune" with the bulk of the comic readers online.
Thank god I'm right or I don't know what I'd do.
I'll agree that Garth Ennis's irreverence is all about the characters, and not the readers. And he's a much better writer than Ellis and Millar. Still, it does get on my nerves sometimes.
Then again, my kind of 'irreverence' comes from guys like Keith Giffen, but I know what you mean. I'd take Preacher any day over Wanted or Nextwave.
Speaking of which, glad that's over with. But then again, his next project is writing the Castlevania animated movie. Seems like he's jumping from one property to another, and will probably piss on this one, too. Unless Konami keeps a short leash on him.
Nextwave's over with issue 12 huh?
Well I'm certainly glad I never claimed this book would last for maybe 12 issues and then Ellis would get bored with it. ;)
Personally I'd like to see them take the team they have and let someone try to do something...I don't know, actually funny with it. Yeah, ain't that weird? As much as I hate the book I don't want it to end really.
As sorta an aside to the whole BP thing and the reactions onlioe:
I find it funny with all the ranting fanboys and nasty "you don't like what I like so you suck" attitudes and given the fairly racist stereotype (which I admit have some shakey basis due to the behavior of some annoying teenagers and young adults who happen to be black...not to be confused with all those equally annnoying white, asian, etc... folks) of how confontational and "Oh no! No you did'unt!" supposed the vast majority of African Americans are supposrd to be that we see in so much media the most civil discussions of comics I've found recently are on Reggie Hudlin's board and on the HeroTalk Museum of Black Superheroes Board.
Course I wonder how many annoying internet geeks would peruse these forums and act terribly annoyed at having fairly tame discussions of race "pushed" on them. I mean, if they get worked up over Storm and T'Challa then I gotta wonder how some of these folks would react to the incredibly fair comment "I really dig Heroes...but where the hell is a black hero?" (I certainly hope the Evil Dad's Stooge from this week isn't it myself) or the even more fair comment "Where in the hell were ANY black people in Superman Returns?"
Re: Ellis
The Castelvania thing can go either way.
On one hand, if Ellis wants a paycheck and more work, he'll make ti work. If he's in a mood, he'll muck it up.
I know this is terribly lawyerly but I can't help but wonder what sort of contracts these guys get. I mean, I have to imagine Millar's Ultimates contract is awesome, as it apparently let he be terribly late, restart the whole series to fix the scheduling and then be really late all over. I for one am really looking forward to Loeb on the book, though I realize he's on the outs with many comics geeks who just years ago were claiming he was the second coming of Miller or whoever (and he's not...a damned good thing in retrospective).
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